Joel Osteen, For Real

The man is an idiot. His new book was reviewed in the Dallas Morning News today. In it, he relates a story about God enabling him and his wife to get a bigger, nicer house than they could afford early on in ministry. It was an expensive, beautiful home. Isn't that lovely? The same week the death count reaches 70,000 in Darfur, Joel Osteen wants you to know that God wants you to have a bigger, nicer house. This country (and quite likely the church in this country) has lost its soul. And its conscience.

Comments

[Travis]

Joel Osteen's usual opening drivel (while waving his Bible in the air like some sort of hypnotic device):
"This is my Bible. I am what it says I am. I have what is says I have . . . blah blah blah."

My translation:
"You are getting sleepy, very sleepy. You are dumb-fucks. Millions are dying and starving while I live in my god-damned [literally] mansion and roll around naked in my money with my aneroxic wife, but I have such shit-for-brains that I really think I am a good Christian. Wave your Bibles, you mind-numbingly stupid hillbillies . . . I am the anti-Christ."

[Streak]

Travis is right. I have watched other preachers like that fat John Hagee get his congregation to repeat his drivel back, and you are reminded of fascist dictators.

Greg, as usual, your post is dead on. Those who are able to see their prosperity in terms with God's blessing are truly deluded. Osteen is just one of many, unfortunately. I kind of miss my dissertation writing days, where I would end up watching religious tv during writer's block. Good times, good times......

[Travis]

Streak, you're right: John Hagee is a fat-fuck - I guess you didn't say that he is a fat-fuck, but he sure as hell is one - I know it's un-Xian of me to hate the likes of Hagee and Osteen, but is it really wrong to hate these devils incarnate? - every time I think that I hate W more than anyone for what he's doing to the US and to the world, I remind myself of Hagee, and I hate him most of all for the things he preaches in the name of Xianity

I guess my cursing here and my hatred isn't all that Christ-like, so I am going to take the fundies' line: "John and Joel, I don't hate you. I love you, but I hate your sins. I hate that you have corrupted the gospel from Christ's message of love, peace, kingdom living, and social justice to your narrow vision of personal gain and personal salvation. I hate that you live lives of ungodly extravagance while our sisters and brothers across the world die in poverty and starvation. I hate that you mislead people into thinking that God is just a cosmic investment banker. I hate that you think the Bible is magic spell book, and that if you chant the right Scriptures, you can command God. I hate that you hate gays and women and people of other faiths. I even hate that you have made me so hateful. But it's your sin, not you, that I hate; I love you."

[dawn's light]

This is it. This is my very last post to you guys. I realize that it's wrong for me to be debating with you guys. Especially after "brother" Travis' remarks on MY weekly confession.

I am a member of Lakewood church. I saw this site looking for some of Pastor Joel's quotes. It disgusted me to read the ugly things you say about my Pastor. You guys don't see what I see, nor experience what I experience. Yes, Pastor Joel is an awesome leader, but he is also a part of a large team at Lakewood. His brother and sister preach on Wednesday nights (did you know that?). Wednesday is more of a bible study night. Last week, Lisa gave Part 2 to an awesome message on how to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit. The week before that Paul finished up his teaching on spiritual warfare. This weekend I went on a retreat and was instructed by 3 more awesome men of God who encouraged everyone to go BEYOND. Beyond circumstances, the natural, ourselves, etc. to reach new levels in our walk with GOD. So please don't tell me that I'm not a real Christian or that I'm just some robot following commands. That really hurts that you see us like that. God knows everything I do for Him so I won't tell you, or even try to prove to you, all the things I've done for HURTING HUMANITY IN THE NAME OF JESUS. I won't let my reward be just telling you. Matthew 6:1 - "Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

Why don't you research the things that Lakewood CHURCH has done for the Houston community and the WORLD?
Type in keywords: Tropical Storm Allison Lakewood, Feed the children Lakewood, Bulgaria Africa Missions Lakewood.
Perhaps then you will see how wrong you are.

And as far as the antichrist comment, please do your homework.

2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Lakewood teaches of the second coming of Jesus.

1 John 4:2-3
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist-he denies the Father and the Son.

Lakewood also teaches that Jesus is the Son of God who died for my sins and was risen and now reigns with the Father in Heaven. He is coming.

With all that said, I pray that you forgive me if I've offended you with previous posts. I forgive you for your comments. This truly is a test in loving the unlovely. Thank you Father for giving me the grace to do so.

May the Spirit of the Lord keep you and guide you in your quest to seek Him further.

Zara Penate
zara.penate@gmail.com

[Brandon]

I'll gladly bear the name "unlovely."

Who, Dawn, said you weren't a real Christian. I'm not saying it didn't happen...I'm just curious. For that I apologize. I think you're a real Christian. I also think that you've become so in love with swallowing whatever it is that they teach you over at that holiest of arenas that you're missing the point.

I think you're an uncritical Christian. A Christian with little above shitty logic, and a Christian that talks first and thinks later. That may make you a stupid Christian...but I think everyone here would call you a Christian.

If we didn't think that, we wouldn't have really cared what you had to say...we would've written you off as a kook. So, I guess you should take the dialogue as a compliment.

[Me]

You guys are sad. THis is almost entertainment. You want to criticize everyone else yet use foul language in the next sentence, this is way too funny.

[Brandon]

Who is me? And, what is foul language? Shit? Shitty? I disagree, but that's another epistle.

[Me again]

Hilarious, yet another punchline. And you guys want to talk about logic.

[Brandon]

Me,
I think your brevity at all costs approach to writing is cutting into your clarity. If you have a point, please do share! And what has any of this to do with logic?

[I.am.a.robot]

No, I am a robot from Lakewood church. *Oils joints* I only do as Joel tells me. I..cannot...think...on...my...own. Therefore, I must go to sensless and hilarious blogs to feed me. Powering down now until next Lakewood sermon.

I hope you know why you guys are getting so many hits, it's so hilarious.

[greg]

Alas, another anonymous poster. Would someone supply some balls to the anonymous posters out there. Mine are still sore from the vasectomy so they can't be used too often.

Dear Me,

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about with the Joel Osteen thing. Honestly, I just started using his name because I noticed how much it increased the hits. I will admit to a certain perverse joy at the thought of Osteen fans showing up at this site. And, I do think the brand of Christianity he preaches is aberrant. However, unless you inted on letting us know more about you, I think I'm done with you. Brandon is correct that your brevity, while meant to show superiority and disdain simply makes you look like a chicken shit. Oops! Profanity. Oh hell, I'm going to hell now.

Zara, sorry your experience here was so negative. However, giving me a laundry list of good deeds doesn't necessarily work. I will say it makes Joel a better Christian than W, but that's not much of a compliment. I hope I didn't imply that you aren't a real Christian. Maybe I did. I apologize if I did. However, what Joel is teaching is not Christianity, or maybe it is. Maybe Christianity as it's taught these days no longer resembles Jesus talk.

[Headless-in-GR]

I'm sitting here at work (conservative christian) laughing my butt off at the first remark! I hope I don't get fired!

[Resident Atheist]

This is tasteless, tactless, and I apologize in advance, but:

the capitalized phrase "HURTING HUMANITY IN THE NAME OF JESUS" seems so, so appropriate.

Forgive me, and please return to your regularly scheduled comments.

[David]

Everyone seems to have ax to grind. I see nothing wrong with Joel Osteem and his teaching. what i do see wrong is is people forget even Jesus said the Poor you have with you always. Any so called poor or there by choice. As for as poor in foreign countrys, when you have corrupt government you have poor. The to all poverty is economic freedom. As for me in my life there have been times of abundance and times of poverty. I am sure if a brother when and asked Joel osteem for some help while he was down.
But you might say what about the rest of the world. Amercia gives more then any other nation. So my question to you. HOw much to you give away. Before you complain about big houses. Do you give away a lot or you just envy his success. Before you blasting what other people do take a long look at your self.

[Resident Atheist]

Quoth David:

Any so called poor or there by choice.

Okay, I've gotta call you on this one. This is bullshit. Go visit a homeless shelter and find somebody with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder and try telling them they can get back on their feet by sheer force of will. It doesn't work that way, pardner.

I've read recently, and for the life of me I can't remember where, the comment that "The poor ye shall always have with you" is not a commandment. That observation seems appropriate here.

[Scott]

This all depends on weither or not you buy into consumer christianity or not. Pure and simple, those who support the super wealthy are those who are straggling behind looking for theirs! We don't need any more cash cows.

I was just at lunch with a bunch of Benny Hinn lovin' guys. The guy has millions, is successful and has a thriving ministry...built around people lookin' for what is "theirs." No one hears about Benny's daughter that went to ORU and went wild. His son is a total hell raiser. How do you justify the money and fame when your family is in ruin?

[Brandon]

David,

Greg is the bad cop on my blog, so allow me to be the bad cop for a moment here.

I love you as a brother in Christ. But beyond that, I think you're a frickin' moron. The poor are poor by choice? Oh, yes, those poor people walk down the street and that's what they'll tell you. "I chose to be poor, and let me tell you something, it kicks ass! I love it and I'll never try to change."

You say:

As for me in my life there have been times of abundance and times of poverty.

Do tell me, David, what exactly you mean by poverty. Have you ever climbed into a dumpster and sorted through dirty diapers and dirty needles for food? Have you ever really spent an evening cowered around a steam vent to keep warm? Have you ever actually given up a weeks worth of meals?

Maybe you have. Maybe you got yourself out of poverty. Congradulations, but it is woefully bad logic to assume that just because you can means that everyone can...however, I doubt you really know extreme poverty.

Amercia gives more then any other nation.

Actually as a percentage, we give far less than any other nation...wait...no, I get it...you were talking about giving to corporate entities and the already mega-rich. You're right. We give them everything.

Do you give away a lot or you just envy his success. Before you blasting what other people do take a long look at your self.

This is what I love about hit and run posters. They don't take the 10 minutes to read the content of the board. Had you, David, read pretty much ANY of Greg's posts, you'd realize that Greg doesn't define success by a big house on a hill. Greg wants to see good. That's it he just wants to see good happen.

I am sure if a brother when and asked Joel osteem for some help while he was down.

The to all poverty is economic freedom.

Are you fucking drunk? Neither of these sentences make any sense. Greg drinks when he writes but at least he knows how to use a semi-colon. Moron.

Before you blasting what other people do take a long look at your self.

I'll try to use short words and sentences. You probably have difficulty understanding these big words. You. Are. Dumb. Read. Before. Posting. Next. Time. Maybe, then you'll realize that the person who needs to look at himself is the one you see in the mirror. The one who swallows everything the great Joel Osteen throws to him.

Grow up, and smarten up.

[David Franco]

It's a travesty that you guys are discussing Christianity on this site. My hopes are that no one actually believes you are representative of what Christ intended for us to be. And I pray that God will help you forgive the "Christian" that left such a bad taste in your mouth for His church.

[greg]

David,

Are you the other David that posted here? Gee, I hope so. I wrote a whole entry just for you. You'll find it under Dear David. I'm still feeling somewhat beneficent so I won't say too much. I'm not sure why it's a travesty that we're discussing Xianity here. At least we are. At Lakewood they're discussing how to be rich and blessed. What did Christ intend for us to be David? I think we get a good representation of that around here: believing, unbelieving, male, female, gay, straight, in church, out of church, angry, disillusioned, hopeful--the whole spectrum is represented. My guess is that since you're a fan of Osteen, you really have no idea what Christ's anthropological goal was for humankind. Keep praying, David, and I'll keep forgiving and asking forgiveness for myself. But mainly I'll pray that God doesn't judge the American church with the same standard of judgement she's used on the gay, the diseased, the poor, the black, and the disenchanted.

[francis]

hello a fan of god and osteem

seems to me that you all are too but not really getting the point except for talking and talking and all you are going to do is continue talk and nothing is going to happen till you realize its too late because god is here and if you continue talking nothing is going to happen your lifes arent going to change except for normal boring lifes i might say and maybe worsen as time will go right passing by and so if i were you guys i pray for help because one day you will look at a mirror and will be dissapointed just like god when you will be standing in front of him he will not be happy and yes COMMENT ABOUT THIS FOR I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO AND THATS PRETTY SAD

[greg]

Francis,

Now that I know God has a fan club, I'll be signing up. Can I get any signed merchandise? That would be kinda cool, and I could probably heal people with it too.

Let me see if I understand, you think we waste our time commenting here, but you stopped long enough to comment. I get it.

Try coherence, Francis. Thanks for stopping by.

[Daniel]

HELLO GREG

LIFE IS NOT TREATING YOU GOOD HUH WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE YOU DONT KNOW GOD KNOWS YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THAT. HOPEFULLY WITH TIME YOUR BRAIN AND HEART WILL GROW AND I WILL PRAY FOR YOU TO HAVE A BIGGER HEART. ONE DAY GOD WILL COME AND FORGIVE YOU FOR ALL THE SINS YOU COMMIT AND PROBABLY BY NOW YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT SINS ARE AND THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO IS REPPENT OF YOUR SINS AND ASK FOR FORGIVENESS

GOD LOVES YOU GOOD OR BAD
STUPID OR DUMB

[Resident Atheist]

Hi Daniel,

This isn't the case with everyone, but most people's hearts and brains are more or less optimally sized to fit in their chest and cranial cavities, respectively. Having one's heart grow would most likely require corrective surgery or replacement, and having one's brain grow usually leads to coma and/or death. (This is why neurologists think of brain swelling as a bad thing.) Consequently, this doesn't strike me as a particularly appropriate thing to pray for.

Cheers,
RA

[greg]

Daniel,

What an adorable post. Do you suppose you could string more cliches together next time? I didn't get enough vapid evangelicalisms in your last post. According to the standard evangelical atonement theory, Jesus has already forgiven me for everything I've done or will do, so I think I'm cruising into heaven, fornicating, drinking and smoking all the way. Cheers.

[Brandon]

I heard something about drinking and I came running. Where the fuck did you guys hide the caps lock key?

[Resident Atheist]

I don't know, but I want to find the key that makes "stupid" and "dumb" opposites. That's not on any keyboard I've ever seen.

[SHARON]

WE ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO STRIVE TO BE GOD-LIKE. THAT IS WHAT CHRISTIAN MEANS. HARDLY ANYONE ON THIS WEBSITE IS STRIVING TO BE GOD-LIKE. IF YOU DON'T LIKE BEING GOD-LIKE THEN MOVE TO IRAQ. THERE YOU WILL BE BEHEADED FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE. CASE CLOSED. NO REASON TO EMAIL ME BECAUSE I WILL JUST DELETE WHAT YOU SEND. GOODNIGHT.

[greg]

I responded to SHARON via email, despite her warning. I think the subject line would have provoked her to read. Hope so. Sharon is the second Osteen fan to type in all caps. What's up with that?

Since she's an Osteen fan, I seriously doubt she knows the first thing about what Christian means. I spent half the email explaining to her how satire and sarcasm work. Waste of time? Probably.

[Brandon]

I'll do the translation for Sharon:

"I am hard headed, and stupid. I haven't yet convinced my quota of individuals of this yet today. I've decided to convince you of my hard headedness and stupidity in one fell swoop. With love, Sharon."

"P.S. Don't email me because I'm stupid."

[your daddy]

you guys know the definition of g.r.e.g mean by any chance well in case you didn't this is what it means.
God
Really
Entertains
Garbage

GREG

[Brandon]

What? I'm afraid that was a little unclear.

[Resident Atheist]

Ooh, acrostic insults! Can I play?

Ye
Olde
Uncommonly
Rude
Dreary
Asinine
Dull
Deadweight
Yokel

(Picture an 18th-century shop sign. A really really long 18th-century shop sign.)

This is fun! If you can come up with a good insulting acrostic for "Resident Atheist", you'll be my new hero.

Cheers,
RA

[Jennifer]

Reading these posts makes me even more resolute to do my job.

Today I shall teach grammar to fundies. Evidently, it is a skill they have lost.

[marty]

Oh, guys. I need to apologize.
I accidentally gave my dad the URL to this website instead of the one to the BBC.
I apologize.

[greg]

Sorry everyone. Your daddy's IP address was AOL. I think that means he's illiterate at a couple different levels. I must say I've never had an acrostic insult though. I shall while away my day thinking of one for RA.

Marty,

That's funny. I wondered whose daddy he was. I knew he wasn't mine. My daddy doesn't know an acrostic from an analogy.

Jennifer, get busy.

[Brandon]

Really
Everyone
Should
Ignore
Deists
Especially
Nagging
Totalitarian
And
Trite
Homeboys
Especially
Ignorant
Standardmodel.blogspot.com
Terds

(Of course, this is all in jest.)

[milkman]

well hello ladies and germs, the ones between and the ones that are very confused all i have to say regarding this comments is entertaining
endless
nuts
through
e-mail
really
talk
alot
idiotic
nonsence
inside
net
garbage

[Resident Atheist]

That's great, Brandon! You get to be my first new hero.

[Michael]

You know all this talk of Joel being a false prophet is totally gay. I wonder what all of you negative personalities out there do every day. Joel never ordered you to do anything, he asked. When was the last time you seriously helped anyone. You seem to be too busy thinking of ways to evade facts. I do not attend the lakewood church, but I do know a few things. No one can be expected to work for free without compensation, or pile a huge congregation into a discomforting dump and expect them to retain a message, or expect to support a family by sheer faith alone. I think your problem is that you have not recieved any message. Do you see that you live in a country that is not based on justic and democracy but capitalism and free enterprise. Do you think networks will spred the message of hope for free? Who pays your bills anyway? Is it you alone, or is it the opportunities you have been provided given your unexplained existance within the universe? I think Joel could have been successful in the real estate market or perhaps something else. I can't speak for you prophets of conspiracy out there, but the fact that he is not trying to sell me Brintney Spear's used underwear is good enough.

[Resident Atheist]

Thank you very much, Michael. Until now, the thought of someone purchasing undergarments previously worn by tone-deaf pop stars had never entered my mind. And such a pleasant thought it is, too. I think I need to go shower and vomit, not necessarily in that order.

Do you suppose there might be a little more to constructing a worthwhile message than avoiding sexual behavior that many people might find irregular?

[greg]

Michael,

I've been in San Antonio for a few days hanging out with smart people. Thanks for changing the climate. I don't think I'll answer any of your accusations since the answers lie elsewhere in the blog.

RA, I'm thinking that since he mentioned the undergarments, they may be too much on his mind. Perhaps Joel gives him peace of mind about that, somehow.

[Michael]

Is that it? An attack of my character is the best you can do? Go vomit while you construct a worthwhile message avoiding sexual behavior that many people might find irregular? Take a close look at America. In the very least I didn't use fuck, shit, ass, etc. as did many folks above. Try to respond to the topic at hand instead of trying to evade it because you have nothing relevant to say.

[Michael]

Also, stop acting like a bunch of children. The world revolves around money-wake up. Do you really think Joel Osteen could survive without money? Crappy homes in this area sell for a half million. Joel inspires thousands of people every week, all you can do is sit there and cry about a little unpleasant language. Sex sells, or didn't you notice?!

[Michael]

Furthermore, you can't simply call someone stupid, Greg, you sort of have to tell them why.

[greg]

Michael,

Did I call you stupid? Maybe obliquely. Sorry, sort of. As I said, the answers to all those questions you seek are elsewhere on this blog. I can't be troubled to respond to the angry rants of every fawning Joel Osteen fan who wanders by. Additionally, since you insist on framing your responses with the vocabulary of the market as opposed to Christianity, I'll safely assume you don't know enough about the Gospel to have an interesting conversation about it.

RA asked you a legitimate question. You either didn't see it or ignored it. Your acceptance of Osteen's message is not done by appropriating a consistent hermeneutic of Scripture. Rather, you accept the message because it seems to make you more comfortable about the gods of capitalism you seem to worship. His message is not Gospel, not even close. Furthermore, I don't care what sort of language people use, so long as what they have to say has merit. In resisting the use of profanity (congratulations), you offered nothing of value.

[Brandon]

I would appreciate it if you, Michael, didn't use foul language like the term "gay" so flipantly and derogatively. I find that patently offensive.

Hatemonger.

[Resident Atheist]

Michael,

If you think that pointing out a prima facie preoccupation with used panties constitutes an attack on your character, there's a bigger communication gap here than I first thought. I don't find the idea of underwear-collecting appealing, but I know some people do (probably not you, though, since you seem to dislike it so much), and I really could care less what they do on their own time.

I will agree with Greg's earlier comment in which he called you stupid. Please let me clarify that, though. You're probably a bright enough guy, and you're certainly more articulate than most of the outrage-mongers we get around here (just read the rest of this thread to get an idea). But when you first posted, you responded to--well, what exactly? A disdainful comment on Joel Osteen, perhaps?

The problem is, anyone will tell you you've got to look at Bible verses in context, and human communication is no different. The context of Greg's disdain for Joel Osteen is right here on the blog for everyone to see, and had you actually bothered to read some of it, it would be obvious to you that your comments are moot. But you elected to shoot off before knowing where you are and whom you're dealing with. Although you may not be a stupid person, and in fact you probably aren't, that was a stupid thing to do.

I don't mean offense by that. I do stupid things too. Everybody does.

Cheers,
RA

[Michael]

Firstly, let me clarify that I am by no means a fanatic religious believer, however, I have read the gospels as well as other literature of the bible more than once. Many times I ponder the validity of the gospels but that doesn't mean that they don't hold any value. Who should tell me how to interpret the bible, you greg, you RA. Once in a while I watch Joel on television because he makes me feel better about my neighbors and I don't want to watch someone trying to sell me a CD to pay for the next five Bently's. I don't view joel as "god" or an "angel". He is a human being. And no, I don't stand behind "capitalism" or "the american way". I think this whole country is f'd up. If you don't believe me come to my home town and I'm sure someone will knock your front teeth out for no apparent reason. (Don't get all worked up about that now - it's not ment to be a threat) But you see what I mean.

Secondly, I didn't get what your questions were. What worthwhile message is there for me to see. Maybe someone could quickly state what your point is, or if it is just that you got caught up because I said britney's underpants. I thought it was clear that everyone here hates britney spears. Me too, who cares?

Whwew, why don't you just come out with it, and state whatever it is that you want to state. And no, I don't really care, I've just been lazy.

[Michael]

P.S. So what if Joel preaches a false gospel. Does he look like a minister to you, or does he look like a business man. I don't see him wearing any long white robe on television. He wears a suit and tie. How are you going to tell me about context when this book was the first of its kind. Can you say without a doubt that you totally comprehend the context of events that took place in the time of Jesus hundreds of years before the gospel was written?

[Scott]

ah-hem, Leme jump in here.

Michael,

Welcome to the blog, and I must say thanks for providing the comic relief material which Greg and RA used in pure genius. How can I do what I do for a living without being entertained and challenged daily by you "fellers".

Michael, I live in Houston, do you? I've seen Joel, met with him and think he's a good person. I also, however, believe him to be a consumeristic opportunist. Now, I don't mean that the way you probably are taking it right now. In fact, he's doing nothing worse than what TBN has done for years, and as far as I know, Joel has never had a gay lover OR bought crusty used women's underpants. I've read some of his material and it's eye candy. I think for the vast majority of new Christians, this stuff can be fun, exciting and fulfilling. What I think you should refrain from is sticking your foot in your mouth so expertly; (*see below)

"Do you really think Joel Osteen could survive without money? Crappy homes in this area sell for a half million. Joel inspires thousands of people every week, all you can do is sit there and cry about a little unpleasant language. Sex sells, or didn't you notice?!"

You also said, "So what if Joel preaches a false gospel?" So you don't care that he does, or you don't care IF he does, or you wish you were Joel...which is it? Putting modern day consumeristic gospel in the same sentence with biblical gospel time frame is laughable. A gospel must be world wide workable.

So, love Joel; eat breathe and respect him. But don't give me this crap about "I wonder what all of you negative personalities out there do every day". You don't know any of these people. You've never walked in our shoes and you sure don't have anything to say to me about money.