A Note About Alcohol

Living on the edge of a church community can be a trying thing, especially when you don't participate in some of the restrictions by which the community defines itself. The hot, tequila-loving hairdresser wife and I drink regularly. (No surprise to regular readers.) The Nazarene church where many of our friends attend is part of a tradition that defines itself by means of the things from which they abstain, including alcohol. Consequently, many of them find the wife and me difficult to understand, if not outright pagans or corrupters of the young. A few people mentioned my previous post and felt like it is part of a larger trend of displaying my own alcohol addiction. This is, of course, funny to people who aren't part of a teetotaling religious tradition. I only appear to be a problem drinker to people who don't drink and won't drink. I've known problem drinkers, and I'm not one of them. (At this point you can interject AA wisdom and say that my denial proves my addiction, if you like.) What is problematic to me is the degree to which my Nazarene friends misunderstand the reasons people drink and the social benefits to be derived from drinking.

When I was a senior pastor in the late '90's, word got back to us that our young adult group was meeting at a pub, playing pool, and drinking beer. The elders asked me to issue an edict (my word, not theirs) forbidding the use of alcohol at church-sanctioned functions. (All you Catholics can chuckle; I won't be offended.) In fact, I knew they were drinking beer before the staff meeting because I had been there with them and had a beer myself. I played darts though, not pool. Having already witnessed the debauchery first-hand, it was easy for me to tell the elders "no." In those days I had more confidence in the Bible, so I pointed out that the Bible doesn't restrict drinking in any absolutist way, and in fact, it suggested the use of alcohol at the agape meals (now pathetically represented by a thimble of shitty grape juice). They insisted that...wait for it...drinking publicly would "cause people to stumble." They did not have the "weaker brother" in mind here necessarily; rather, they meant the other Christians who might happen to see it and think bad thoughts about us as well as the unbeliever: a strange and foreign group to these elders it would seem, as they think unbelievers know Christians aren't supposed to drink and are being hypocrites when they do indulge. (Oddly enough, it would not have been hypocritical to decry the use of public alcohol consumption while consuming it at home.) I won the day when I pointed out that Christians from other churches who would be offended are already in church, and that unbelievers as a general rule don't give two shits whether we drink or not, although they do care if we say one thing and do another.

Moderation is a wonderful thing. I've found while working with Nazarene and Southern Baptist kids (over 21) that churches with a legalistic ethos concerning alcohol don't do a good job of actually teaching moderation. There is no one to model moderation in drinking because drinking is bad. Additionally, once the practice of drinking is tabooed, drinking itself becomes the means whereby a young person acts out against the tradition. This normally leads to serious alcohol abuse. Young people in denominations that don't prohibit the recreational consumption of alcohol do better when it comes time for them to choose whether or not to drink. They've seen their parents drink responsibly, as well as pastors, leaders, friends, relatives, and little old church ladies. This seems a far better way to handle the use of alcohol. So, folks, calm down. I'm not an alcoholic. At least I can say I'm following the way of Jesus in this one area: he drank, after all. Also, despite my antipathy toward evangelical hermeneutics, I can happily occupy the hermeneutical high ground on this one: my application of Biblical texts is far more consistent than the teetotalers'. Peace, and beer.

Comments

[Phil]

I'll drink to this.

[Ryan]

As a church of God pastor, I am pleased to to answer with a resounding "Amen!"

[Captain Freedom]

As a youth pastor searching for ways to teach kids the joy and proper ways to enjoy a beer once they reach 21 and avoid being a drunk or alcholic. I too say amen and I will drink to that (a Breckinridge Arrogant Bastard).

[Leighton]

There were two pastors' kids in my freshman year dorm suite who had never touched alcohol prior to coming to college, and were alcoholics by the end of the first semester. One dropped out at Christmas, the other at the end of his first year. It's tragic both for the effects, and because it's just so unnecessary.

Some of the other kids wound up with some pretty nasty STDs from unprotected sex with prostitutes in Tijuana; the no alcohol crowd is usually also big on not teaching about safer sex and contraceptives (and, you know, only sleeping with people you know and trust).

[fiodax]

It's funny when fundangelicals who claim that scripture is inerrant and interprets itself go so far out of the way on this issue of alcohol to make the Bible say something that it clearly does not say.

I am a fundangelical in the sense that I believe the whole Bible, I believe it is inerrant, and believe it interprets itself, but I ran into this problem recently at the church I am currently going to. I was confronted because the young lady we had baby sit for us one night was the pastor's daughter and happened to notice a six pack in my fridge and relayed that info to her father.

The pastor approached me and with a very serious tone said that he needed to talk to me. It freaked me out, because I had no idea what he was wanting to talk to me about, and then he said, "My daughter said you had beer in your refrigerator" I just said, "yeah", and he said "well don't you think you're ruining your witness?" I asked "To whom? your daughter? does she not believe in Jesus anymore because of the beer in my fridge?"

He then went on to explain to me that the wine in the Bible was actually unfermented grape juice. That was the good wine, the bad wine was the "spoiled" grape juice that was fermented. I said "your kidding right?"... he wasn't.

My question to him was why then does Paul use the same word for wine to tell us not to get drunk on it? Why would he tell us not to get drunk on something you can't get drunk on (unfermented grape juice)?

He didn't have an answer to that.

I told him that I thought my hermeneutic on the issue was much stronger than his, and I told him that by doing this he was really twisting the words of scripture in a way that I don't think he would dare to on any other issue and he was making alcohol more powerful than God.

To make things worse a couple of weeks later there was a Bible study in the church about the "evils of alcohol". One part of the study said "shame on you for even thinking that Jesus turned the water into alcoholic wine..." It really made me sad.

This god of these people must be pretty pathetic if he can't handle a beer, how am I to depend on him for anything if drinking a beer neuters him of all his power...It's not my God that's for sure.

Luke 7:33-34:

33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’

[Leighton]

He then went on to explain to me that the wine in the Bible was actually unfermented grape juice. That was the good wine, the bad wine was the "spoiled" grape juice that was fermented. I said "your kidding right?"... he wasn't.

The funny part is that this comes less from a prima facie plausible yet ultimately misguided exegesis than from a 19th century Welch's Grape Juice marketing campaign targeted at churches. It's not the first or the last time American Christians have trusted false but convenient arguments (in this case, convenient because it supported Prohibition) coming from people who have a strong financial stake in people not asking questions. Just one more consequence of rejecting Matthew 10.16, I suppose.

[susan]

Not to mention that they can't explain how grapes harvested in Sep/Oct stay unfermented until April for the seder.

[Greek Tats Rock!]

You are a corrupter of the young...bastard

[bobstevens]

The real problem with alcohol is that beer is an acquired taste. And it's a taste I really have no desire to acquire.

Yet people regard good-tasting drinks like hard lemonade or margaritas as "gay". I always thought that it was intercourse with the same sex that made you gay, but I guess I was wrong.

So my own alcohol problem is that if I go to a bar, I don't really know what to order that I won't hate.

[bobstevens]

Some of the other kids wound up with some pretty nasty STDs from unprotected sex with prostitutes in Tijuana; the no alcohol crowd is usually also big on not teaching about safer sex and contraceptives (and, you know, only sleeping with people you know and trust).

Perhaps the porn industry is more to blame than the church for this one.

[Leighton]

Right, because nobody ever has unprotected sex without porn giving them the idea first.

Seriously though, it's not a question of finding the single most responsible party and assigning 100% of the blame to them, and letting everyone else off the hook entirely. Most American churches have their teens as captive audiences for between 2 and...what's a fair figure? 5, 10 hours a week? ...during which time they could surely fit in some guidance on how to handle their biological needs safely and responsibly, but usually they don't. Instead of engaging their sexuality honestly, more often than not all the (usually married) adults give them is generic, unspecific "Don't fool around until marriage" speeches, which doesn't help them when they're facing the longest time gap between sexual maturity and marriage age of any generation in human history. You can blame the adult entertainment industry for whatever you like, and a lot of it is probably justified, but it's not something under our immediate control. What we teach our kids is. It's harder to teach and model responsibility with drinking and sex than it is to blame porn and bars and brewing companies for things we don't like, but it's no less necessary for being difficult.

There's nothing wrong with a good cocktail. Depending on what you're eating at the time, a sweet drink may be a better fit than beer or wine--I like hard lemonade with barbecue, for instance. Mike's Hard [whatever] and Jack Daniels' Country Cocktails are good for being store bought, though homemade stuff tends to be better, if you know someone who can do it.

My experience was that I disliked beer for two reasons: one was the taste of the alcohol, the other was the bitterness. I got used to the alcohol by drinking cocktails and the bitterness by drinking coffee, and after I was introduced to a good beer (not mass-produced), my objections evaporated. It's not a moral imperative to drink beer, but once acquired, it is a worthy skill that leads to all kinds of conversations with people of all different backgrounds. Generally, I'm in favor of activities that make connections with other people easier.

[fiodax]

I really think that it is more up to the family than the church to teach kids about sex and beer. And I use the word church here loosely. Personally I don't really want any of the churches I have been to lately to talk to my kids about either one (BTW I have 4 kids and one on the way and sex and beer have definitely played their respective parts in the whole process of my family coming to be).

It seems like some on my side of the fundangelical crowd take this stance that they want their kids to be "shocked by sin" and in order to achieve this they totally shelter the kid from the world and then make up stories about how Jesus really drank grape juice. In the process they create a person that can neither interact with the rest of society, nor do they have a desire to (very missional wouldn't you say?).

I'd rather my kids know what sin is and then just to choose not to do it. I'm also not going to set up idols for my kids to worship in tribute to their own self righteousness.

I'd much rather them drink to much some day and regret it the next morning, than never taste the stuff and think they're holier than Jesus because of it.

[bobstevens]

I was just thinking along the lines of "Hmm, who is the biggest promoter of recreational, often anonymous unprotected sex with multiple partners... people who sell that exact thing as an entertainment commodity, or people telling you not to have sex at all?"

I'm definitely not claiming that the church is without error here... I think the problem there is mostly a conflict between societal changes and doctrinal rigidity.

And Mike's hard lemonade is good stuff. Tried the pre-mixed TGI Friday's long island storebought stuff and didn't like it though. I suppose you're right, once I'm more used to alcohol in general doors will open up.

[Captain Freedom]

Actually, the major porn stars require that their partners use condoms and they are on birth control. Not that helps always, but I understandstand your point Bob.

There is alot of mixed messages about sex and alchol coming from both certain industries and churches. Neither one promotes a healthy, realistic engagment of the activities.

Not sure if I made sense but oh well.

[Leighton]

Personally I don't really want any of the churches I have been to lately to talk to my kids about either [beer or sex].

Definitely a good point; seeing as I would trust two, maybe three of the churches I've seen in my life to have anything to do with kids, I shouldn't be so general. I had in mind the idea of a community working with parents to raise children, since parents do drop the ball a lot (particularly church leaders; I've never known a pastor's/preacher's/minister's child younger than 30 who isn't paranoid that the entire world is watching her to see how she compares to her father's expectations). It takes a village, and all that. But you're right, I shouldn't expect actual churches to provide this service when no education is far better than miseducation. There would have to be a fundamental shift in church culture first.

I was just thinking along the lines of "Hmm, who is the biggest promoter of recreational, often anonymous unprotected sex with multiple partners... people who sell that exact thing as an entertainment commodity, or people telling you not to have sex at all?"

Yeah, there's the bad modeling for sure, and I don't know anyone who doesn't know that; but when kids' minds are poisoned week after week, month after month, year after year by people who are telling them their desires are wrong, that they shouldn't even masturbate until they're married (and they shouldn't get married for another 10 or 12 years), something's going to break: either they decide their authority figures are wrong about everything and go rebel (the reaction of my suitemates back in the day), or they turn the knife inward and start eviscerating their own psyches. My tendency is to assign the bulk of the responsibility to the adults--parents, youth ministers, mentor figures--who have power over the kids, more than random websites they can just close the browser and never see again. Most of these kids won't patronize sex workers, but there's a lot of psychological and (if you want to use the term) spiritual damage that takes years to heal, if it ever does.

I'm definitely not claiming that the church is without error here... I think the problem there is mostly a conflict between societal changes and doctrinal rigidity.

Definitely...using kids as fodder and ammunition in a culture war isn't quite the worst possible way to raise them, but it's close.

[Leighton]

Long Island has (if I remember rightly) three or four different kinds of alcohols with their own distinct flavors; it's not something I'd usually pick as a starter cocktail. Kahlua is pretty good, though: you can put as much as you like in coffee or hot chocolate for a little extra kick (makes the drink warm going down even when it's cooled off). Kahlua and milk is pretty good too. If you have some vodka, you can put some of that in to make a White Russian.

[Captain Freedom]

"My tendency is to assign the bulk of the responsibility to the adults--parents, youth ministers, mentor figures--who have power over the kids, more than random websites they can just close the browser and never see again."

As a youth minister I understand that point and I do feel like that is a large part of my job. However, not many parents want me to tell their kids the truth about sex and alcohol or even drugs. They would rather have them be scared into not doing it which will fuck up their lives later on.

A majority of my youth especially teenage girls, want to talk about sex but they don't want the healthy discussion about it. They just want to know it's okay to do it so they can be better at when they are married.

Sex should be treated the same way we should talk about alcohol. Openly, honestly, and discuss the good things and why it is important to wait. Especially when it comes to all the emotional damage that can be done to a teenager when they engage in these activities just to piss people off.

My opinion is that parents need to be the ones having this discussion because each one has a totally different view/understanding. But, I feel like today's parents (or at least the ones I am in contact with in VA) don't want to. They want to ignore it and have some one else raise their kid.

[Leighton]

Sex should be treated the same way we should talk about alcohol. Openly, honestly, and discuss the good things and why it is important to wait.

I'm with you on the first part, but I don't think it's terribly important to set a firm age limit on either activity. Parental consent and supervision is sufficient for drinking prior to 21, and some people are legitimately ready for sexual activity in their teens. (Others aren't ready for it until past 30.) Part of an honest discussion of sex, in my book, is recognizing the wide range of shared activities between kissing and actual intercourse, some of which make it possible to satisfy biological needs without risking unplanned pregnancies. Unmarried people have the same sexual needs everyone else does, and when I was unfortunate enough to be part of a youth group, being told "Just don't do it" by people who are married and who (as far as I knew at the time) could get laid whenever they wanted was unhelpful and deeply frustrating.

Of course, having your hands tied by parents makes having those kinds of discussions difficult or impossible. Since I don't intend to be part of a church again, I don't have any idea how to approach that problem.

[Leighton]

And yes, ideally, parents would be the primary source for this kind of information. It seems to be a cultural thing that Americans treat churches as a way to outsource their child-rearing.

[tommie]

i love you.

[Captain Freedom]

I agree with your comment of not setting a firm age limit. The only reason I wrote about age limit was because there is an age limit on drinking and certain laws prohibit drinking until said age.

But I have had parents who drank with their kids and they taught them beginning at 13 true moderation and to drink for enjoyment/pleasure not drunkenness.

"Part of an honest discussion of sex, in my book, is recognizing the wide range of shared activities between kissing and actual intercourse, some of which make it possible to satisfy biological needs without risking unplanned pregnancies."

Now this is going to take us off into a new direction but...I agree with you on that. I think people should be intimate with one another but they need to understand the emotional responsiblities. However, you can't really tell a teenager who isn't ready that because all they hear is "blah...blah...go have sex..." or something like that.

This discussion actually comes at good time because this is part of our study of the month of September. Yikes.

[Leighton]

It's easy for me to pontificate on this issue because I don't have any actual teens to deal with at this point in my life. The best I can do as far as continuing the discussion in any practical sense is to plug Hugo Schwyzer's blog; he's an evangelical (now former) youth minister who's written numerous times about teen sexuality, frex here and here.

Hugo's posts on students having crushes on their professors was very helpful for me when I was just starting teaching, and while I can't speak from experience about his youth ministry posts, I wish my youth ministers had taken his approach.

Best wishes with your teens this month.

[Shawn, the Beer Philosopher]

Well said, I appreciate your approach to this issue ... or non-issue ... depending on who you ask.