Good News, Bad News

Trent Lott is leaving the Senate, presumably to avoid the new law that prohibits government officials from becoming lobbyists for two years after their term of office. The current legislation calls for a one-year hiatus. If Lott gets out before January '08, he is still under the old rule. Hmm...

Hastert is gone. I don't think there is any bad news attached to that. We'll just wait for the indictments now.

GWB signed an agreement with the Iraqi government for "an enduring U.S. presence" in that country. Does that translate to military bases? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, uhm, yeah. Won't that be a delightful tour for the poor schmucks in our military. And haven't some people been saying that we intended to do this all along? I believe the "liberals" who predicted this were villified and scorned. Pretty sure we won't be hearing any apologies from the Right.

The faith and family values tour just keeps on rolling...

God bless America...

Comments

[Dallas Tim]

Hollywood and our rap culture have done more to undermine our culture than anything related to Bush. The liberals have those groups their pockets and have for quite awhile. It's easier to criticize Bush, though because Hollywood does such a good job of entertaining us.

[Jason]

It's more honest to criticize Bush because he actually has the power to do something.

Also, did I miss the part of the post about who is "undermining our culture"? And why are conservatives/Republicans so quick to jump on Hollywood every chance they get, yet still swoon like schoolgirls every time a B-list star (Reagan, Fred Thompson, Ron Silver, Sonny Bono) shows them some leg?

[Adam Smithee]

Tim,

I normally don't say much, but what you are talking about and the deterioration of our culture was not the topic being discussed by Greg. No one is saying GWB had anything to do with that. If you think that GWB is a good president, or has been one, then I wonder what is in your Kool-Aid. Remember this, it is the lies that GWB told to Congress and the American people that now have us in this situation in the Middle East. GWB has already come back and admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

I would recommend you turn off your Fox News and TBN and find an alternate news source and stick to the topic at hand.

[Dallas Tim]

Adam,

You mean the same lies that the democratic leadership told us about Sadaam having WMD's? Or the ones they told us about his attempts to develop them in order to use them against us?
Which ones were you referring to?

Jason,

I feel sorry for any school-girl swooning over Fred Thompson. The thought of him showing off some leg is nauseating.

[Adam Smithee]

Tim,

Again you have totally dismissed the topic that Greg was discussing.

If Greg wants to talk about just how corrupt our government is then he can.

If Greg wants to talk about just how evil and wicked the republican and democrat parties are then he can do that. It's his blog.

What you are trying to discuss is a rabbit I'm not willing to chase.

[Dallas Tim]

And the idea that George Bush "has the power to do something" more than those churning out the crap coming out of the entertainment industry is really rather silly. I know we'll always have some degree of filth no matter what, but the (mostly) liberal/democratic side chumming up with everyone who thinks what we watch doesn't affect what we do, and the fact that the actor pretend to have some sort of collective resolve to "set things straight" while they churn out movies that celebrate every sort of debauchery know to man (and woman). They DO have a responsibility to curtail the infection of our society with they crap they produce and if they are too greedy to do so, then don't pretend to know how to tell the rest of us what type of leader we should have because if he/she's only been married once and never been in jail, then they won't look anything like what Hollywood recommends.

[Dallas Tim]

Adam,

I've been (usually respectfully) discussing things on this blog for the better part of 3 years. We don't always stay on topic. We sometimes chase rabbits. It IS Greg's blog and I never told him what he could or couldn't say in his posts. I was simply responding to his comment about the "faith and family values tour" and felt that there are lots of other who have been leading this coutry down the wrong road for a long time and deserve just as much (if not more) criticism than the current administration. I don't need Ben Affleck telling me who the "good guys" are.

I don't care if you don't want to discuss it or not. I didn't ask you if you did. The fact that you did and then informed me that you wouldn't is causing me great consturnation.

Just tell me you'll be cheering for the Cowboys Thursday night and all will be forgiven.

(BTW, Tony Romo told me to tell you to vote Republican)

[Adam Smithee]

Tim,

I am registered as Independent. So as it stands I don't like any of my options. I have no idea who I will vote for. Now I do plan to vote, just because I want something to complain about.

As for Thursday night. I think Dallas wins ONLY because the game is being played in Dallas. I like Green Bay because of Brett Favre, but in all honesty my team is the Raiders so I have nothing to cheer for. As long as New England doesn't win the Superbowl I will be happy.

[sepherim]

Come on, Tim. Please stop dragging out the argument about the dems agreeing that there were WMDs. Everything congress thought it knew it got from the whitehouse and its agencies. And not one of the dems you mention manipulated the information to justify going to war.

BTW someone needs to tell all those people who keep calling the POTUS the most powerful man (but not for long) in world, that its not true. Tim said so.

[greg]

Tim,

I'm past weary of hearing about how the Democrats believed Sadam had WMD's. No military goes to war with 8-year old intelligence. Stop watching Fox News. If you can't, at least watch Outfoxed to see how they operate.

My entire point was that Republicans pretend to be the party of family and faith, yet we have Lott resigning to take advantage of his military industrial contacts and Hastert in trouble for multiple infringements of financial laws. Oh, those evil Democrats...

[Dallas Tim]

Adam,

I agree. I am so hoping someone beats the Pats (I had my fingers crossed the other night that even the hated Eagles might pull it off, but alas.. 3 points short)

Raiders huh? I drive by Tim Brown's house on a regular basis. He is a quality guy from the area who had a heart to match his awesome talent. I'll get an autograph for you if I ever get to talk to him.

[Dallas Tim]

Greg,

The democratic leaders were clammoring for action with the same intelligence Bush had. CLinton, Kerry, etc...

Sepherim,

You'l have to make sure you tell them "Dallas" Tim said so. There are lots of other Tims, but none with my kind of clout.

Greg,

Do you honestly still actually believe that ANY party holds complete family and faith representation?

It's usually mostly about the money. Not that money is bad, but you know how much people will compromise for a buck (or two).

Any word on an NBA team for OKC?

[Todd]

Greg,
Here's a friends take on Lott - http://talldrinkawater.blogspot.com/2007/11/whole-lott-of-loving-goin-on.html

[Zossima]

Tim, just because the Dems are dumb asswipes doesn't excuse Bush and company for lying. Simple logic.

But you are right about the money. Follow the real money, the billions and trillions. It ain't going to Hollywood. Stop drinking the cultural war Kool-Aid and wake up to the wealth transfer and power grab that is going on. Dick Cheney will either be dead or living in Dubai while your kids and mine pay the bill.

Greg, bases have been going up in Iraq for quite some time.

[bobstevens]

Both the current long, drawn-out occupation and the potential for military base building in Iraq seemed pretty obvious to me back when an invasion was first brought up.

For that matter, WMDs always seemed like a ridiculous justification for invasion too. The "let's stop the genocide" thing was a much better rationale. It seemed pretty obvious that Saddam's regime wasn't an immediate threat to the U.S.

I don't think I have Nostradamus-ian foresight or anything, but I have to admit I'm amazed how many people in the general public are surprised by how these things have transpired.

All in all I just hope that people learn from this. A few years back I made a sarcastic comment about how great it is to have a Christian in the white house at a family gathering... which my sister-in-law quickly agreed with not realizing the sarcasm. I hope she and others will understand that "against abortion" does NOT mean "qualified to be in a position of authority"... but the fact that anyone anywhere supported the Meyers nomination reveals that the lesson hasn't sunk in quite yet.

I'm not sure how Hollywood corrupts America, to be honest. Law and Order has sucky writing these days, is it something to do with that? I think the Family Research Council does a lot of harm... possibly more than all of the prime-time TV shows that compete to see how many crazy, pointless ways they can say "bitch" in an episode because it's the only profanity they're allowed to use.

[greg]

Tim,

Your tactic in calling out the dems is one of the clearest examples of the dishonesty you use so frequently in your arguments (along with your faulty analogies). Of course the Democrats in Congress thought Saddam had WMD's. Where do you suppose they got that information? They believed what they were shown by the...wait for it...advisors to President Bush. Did you think there was an independent Democratic Intelligence Agency that went into Iraq to bring back different intelligence? So, what you're actually saying is: the dems are guilty because they believed Bush and they should have known he was lying or is an idiot.

[greg]

Z,

I'm talking about the kind of military bases I grew up on: permanent quarters, commissary with frozen turkeys, bowling alley, gym, etc. The kind of bases that say "we're here to stay," not the kind you build in a war zone.

[Dallas Tim]

Greg,

You can only deny the truth for so long...

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

I could provide much more of these faulty analogies, but I wanted to at least offer these from comments (several of which were made long before Bush ever became president) that democratic leadership felt that Saddam was developing, already using, and intending to use, WMD's against not only our forces, but even his own people.

There's no dishonesty here (except the liberal duplicity in saying Bush shouldn't have gone into Iraq), just the recorded facts to back up my comments. THEY wanted us to disarm Saddam. They felt military action was needed there. That's what we did.

Maybe our exit strategy is in limbo, maybe we didn't quite forsee how the region would develop with a vacume of leadership. I'm not saying Bush and Co. had it all figured out perfectly or that major adjustments regarding how were going to handle the situation from here on out aren't needed. YOU need to quit being dishonest (or at least quit labeling me as such) when the statements and reports from the Democrats are there in black and white from years before Bush came to power. It really sounds like Bush did what they were begging Clinton to do in the first place.

I guess Bush should have questioned the intel passed down from the Clinton Admin. because it looks like that was pretty suspect too.

Or at least he should have know that Clinton was lying or was an idiot.

[Zossima]

Tim, at some point responding to your inanity is counterproductive. We're probably well past that. Let's get to something fundamental: The Bush administration led the American public to believe (1) that Iraq was involved in 911, (2) that Iraq had ties to al Qaeda, and (3) that Iraq had WMDs that posed a threat to us. All 3 turned out to be false. Regardless of which Dems believed (3), the first 2 were clearly false at the time, and it was Cheney's co-opting of the intel process that produced them, not faulty intel itself. Quit shilling.

Second, just because a bunch of Dems believed that Iraq possessed WMDs and wanted Saddam's removal does not mean that they advocated attempting to occupy Baghdad and the ensuing blunder.

Now, your boy Bush makes the big bucks to be a leader. Quit pawning off the biggest colossal failure (strategic, tactical, military, constitutional, financial, etc.) in the history of this country on what other people believed. Either he's a leader or he's not, and nothing the Dems thought really matters.

At a minimum, Bush (and the rest of the crew) is a huge failure. There's just no denying it. (These are people who said it'd be over in 6 months and finance itself, for crissakes! That alone should qualify them for impeachment!) At a maximum, he's a liar and a traitor. Those are the only real choices, and any self-respecting Republican should be ashamed of these guys.

[Zossima]

BTW, Tim, the contradiction of your "thinking" (quotations because you're really just regurgitating your conditioned response) on the last two posts is quite interesting:
* Poor pregnant woman ARE responsible to deliver and support their unborn (I'll leave your ignorance of both the racial overtones of that position and the facts regarding the labor force participation of minority single women out of this)

* George Bush gets a free pass on the trillion dollar Iraq debacle because Clinton thought Saddam kept the weapons programs going

This is fairly typical of the Fox News crowd and indicative of why we'll all be speaking Chinese in 50 years.

[greg]

Tim,

Let me also add, and I've already pointed this out, it doesn't matter what Clinton believed YEARS before the invasion. No military goes to war on 8-week old intelligence, let alone 8-year old. Try to be a little honest in your quote choosing. And again, the Dems were responding to what they'd been told, especially the comments in 2002. Where do you suppose they got their information in September 2002? Who was running things at that point? Again, your dishonesty in the way your argue is troubling.

[Dallas Tim]

Zoss,

I Never EVER said Bush should have occupied Bagdad, but your obvious expertise where foreign involvement is concerned, especially military action, is duly noted. I'll have all the generals call you and get you recommendations because you clearly know more than they do.

Do you know for a fact that Saddam had zero to do with 9/11, Al-Qaida, or that he had complete and total lack of involvement with any of the individuals or organizations that contributed to that tragedy? Al-Zarqawi (Al-Qaida leader) hid found sanctuary in Iraq until we got him. While we never got a confession from Saddam himself, we do have things like this...

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1051121852966

...that certainly give us reason to think we don't know the whole story.

The situation there is more complicated than anyone could have ever imagined, but what if we had just killed/captured Saddam and left? Do you think they would have held all-inclusive elections and would have overwhelmingly selected a fair, sensible guy? Or would it have been another Saddam? Should we have left a power vacum for more terrorists to fill? I know it's unbelievable that they didn't consult you since you and the rest of the arm-chair QB's all seem to have been able to understand everything perfectly, but we can't just leave. We need a good exit strategy, but the generals who are there are trying to do what needs to be done and the President is trying to let them.

And I'm glad that you still have a race card to play when it comes to killing children. I forgot that being poor or having to work means you get to do what's convenient... even if it's murder.

[Dallas Tim]

Greg,

Are you not paying attention? The Clinton Admin. got the same intel years before Bush. Bush didn't do anything until almost 7 months after 9/11. We had no reason to believe that an un-cooperative Saddam was any less likely to keep producing and using the same WMD's that, according to the Clinton admin., he had been using for years on his own people. DO you think Bush should just have scrapped all of the data from before his admin. and started over? Who does that? (hint... NO ONE) We still had every reason to believe that Saddam was developing and preparing to use WMD's. Period.

Maybe there's a quicker solution, but I'll think your second guessing is alot like most who see bits and pieces and not the whole picture.

[Zossima]

Tim, I'm not sure why the personal attack, but I'm not taking the bait. And actually you've just revealed your ignorance once again on the abortion issue (my parenthetical point alluding to the fact that minority women participate in the labor force at the same rate and for the same hours as white men---they just make a lot less).

It doesn't take any kind of expertise to recognize bullshit or a fuck-up. In fact, it takes a special kind of willful ignorance to not recognize them.

[Zossima]

No, Tim, the Clinton admin did not have the SAME intelligence. By the time Bush and company were making their case, quite a bit of the intelligence they presented as fact had already been discredited. And the views of inspectors on whether or not Saddam had weapons programs had changed. Those are facts. Look 'em up. And quit justifying Bush by what Clinton did, goddammit! It just doesn't matter to the question of whether or not Bush has done a good job.