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January 27, 2012



If there is an objective truth, not up to interpretation, your comments fall flat to the ground.

Then the question would be whether or not we can truly know such an objective truth.

Furthermore, if Christians weren't "hypocritical" and actually believed EVERYTHING Jesus said, including the "resist not an evil" man, you would look pretty embarr-assed. I assert, such is the case with some Christians.

Carry on...

Greg Horton

Dear Mr. Lobo, not sure you'd be able to identify this objective truth of which you speak. Can we know it? No idea. I'm borderline certain the Bible doesn't contain it, just as I'm borderline certain it's almost a useless designation. It's a way of saying I'm compelled to believe this. Unfortunately, this is about metaphysics, so you can say anything and demonstrate nothing. So whose comments are falling flat?

Such is the case with a very small subset of Christians, but that they get the pacifism right says nothing about what else they do or don't do. Way to miss the point, though. Now that you've decided some do it and some don't, you've sort of made my point again. Well done, Mr. Lobo.


Good stuff, Greg. I have noted before to some of my conservative friends that I find it puzzling that the Bible "means what it says," etc when talking about gays, but when it challenges wealth, or violence, somehow the literal interpretation is no longer convincing.


Greg, your post very timely appeared in my Reader as I'm finishing up the "moral character" portion of my application to the Bar. I'm supposed to provide 6 people who can attest to my good moral character (because the state of Illinois does SUCH a great job of weeding out those sleazy, immoral attorneys!!).

A lot of the people I listed have known me for ages and are familiar with my fervent-fundagelical days. But I immediately thought, the more fundy my beliefs are doesn't necessarily make me more moral. And that's a pretty sad indictment of fundagelicals. They hold themselves up as the most moral in the face of godless liberals, but (and I bet the Illinois Bar folks have already learned this), professing this type of faith isn't necessarily an indicator of a better person.


Natalie, in some circles, some religious affiliations might actually count against you for that purpose. Religious visas are the largest source of immigration fraud, for instance, far exceeding fraudulent marriage claims and invalid visa apps by members of organized criminal groups. Department of State at least has known for decades that organizations designed to be paradises for con artists (by institutionalizing unconditional trust and leaps of faith) will tend to contain more than their fair share of malefactors.

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Have you ever read Karl Barth? I think that if you do then you will find that you are not alone in your observations.

The Bible is fallible and this is essential to its theological function, namely, so that fallible humans will not set it up as a false absolute. Revelation is under the control of God as revelation controlled by humankind is revelation distorted. This is what you are railing about! The Bible is only a witness to revelation, not revelation itself.

Also, Knowing YHWH existentially and following his ways are not dependent upon believing the perfect things about YHWH.

To other commentors- Please resist the urge to seek to increase your feeling of social and intellectual superiority by insulting me for this comment. Not every form of communication on the internet needs to end in a flame war.

PS. I find the doctrine of inerrancy and the inconsistent hermeneutics of its adherents to be infuriating.

Greg Horton

Had you read more than one post, you would know that I've read more Barth than many Reformed folk. God knows Acts 29 and their ilk could use some Barth. However, you don't solve the problem by saying the Bible is a witness to revelation; you only move it back one degree and make it even more unreliable. If it witnesses poorly to the revelation, how do we know there was a revelation at all. I'm almost certain this is the issue the Traditionalists in Islam hoped to avoid by declaring the Qur'an to be the actual words of Allah. As for your "social and intellectual superiority" comment, you have an odd way of communicating without flaming, it seems. 




Or a link if that's easier.

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